1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:09,040 [Music] 2 00:00:11,130 --> 00:00:14,229 [Music] 3 00:00:14,759 --> 00:00:17,960 I get 4 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:41,120 welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world 5 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:43,440 with me George Galloway and me gatri the 6 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:46,760 political situation on both sides of the 7 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:49,760 Atlantic is in total chaos at the time 8 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:52,440 of writing as they say Donald Trump is 9 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:54,359 still the president of the United States 10 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:58,359 but we can guarantee that that will be 11 00:00:54,359 --> 00:01:00,079 true by the time you read this on this 12 00:00:58,359 --> 00:01:02,719 side of the Atlantic the British 13 00:01:00,079 --> 00:01:06,520 government is hanging by the tassels of 14 00:01:02,719 --> 00:01:10,439 an orange sash Mrs May is prime minister 15 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:13,000 only by the grace and favor of 10 of the 16 00:01:10,439 --> 00:01:16,560 murkiest members of parliament I ever 17 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:19,400 sat with in the House of Commons the 18 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:22,479 marching bands of the democratic 19 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:25,400 unionist party are now in control of 20 00:01:22,479 --> 00:01:28,400 British State policy which is I promise 21 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:31,759 you not a good look our first guest 22 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:35,159 today happens to have had a vantage 23 00:01:31,759 --> 00:01:38,159 point on both sides of the Atlantic he 24 00:01:35,159 --> 00:01:41,360 is a former distinguished editor of the 25 00:01:38,159 --> 00:01:44,240 leftwing newspaper Tribune when it was a 26 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:47,439 distinguished left-wing newspaper he 27 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:51,000 also was a parliamentary candidate and 28 00:01:47,439 --> 00:01:55,079 may one day be one again at least I hope 29 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:58,079 so he worked for Banky Moon the UN 30 00:01:55,079 --> 00:02:00,719 General Secretary as a speech writer and 31 00:01:58,079 --> 00:02:03,520 political advisor he's even going to be 32 00:02:00,719 --> 00:02:07,079 teaching at Colombia University in the 33 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:10,080 fall he is a man of Parts a renaissance 34 00:02:07,079 --> 00:02:12,360 man former member of Labor's national 35 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:15,040 executive committee I better not forget 36 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:18,560 that because that might become important 37 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:21,959 for him and for me he is Mark sidden and 38 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:24,319 I welcome you to the Sputnik uh Mark uh 39 00:02:21,959 --> 00:02:25,840 it's quite a CV you've uh developed I 40 00:02:24,319 --> 00:02:29,560 could have mentioned you were a 41 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:31,680 correspondent for Al jazer television uh 42 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:34,680 and and as I've known you for decades 43 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:38,239 now uh I'm very proud of how you've got 44 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:41,239 on but from that unique vantage point on 45 00:02:38,239 --> 00:02:43,640 both sides of the Atlantic you must like 46 00:02:41,239 --> 00:02:46,879 me scratch your head at how both Britain 47 00:02:43,640 --> 00:02:49,080 and the United States got here 48 00:02:46,879 --> 00:02:50,680 scratching the head yes but do you know 49 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:53,720 what and I think this is where you and I 50 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:56,519 would probably uh agree that we we this 51 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:59,599 Vantage Point uh means that you can see 52 00:02:56,519 --> 00:03:01,519 that the pollsters The commentariat Who 53 00:02:59,599 --> 00:03:02,840 on both sides of the Atlantic seem to 54 00:03:01,519 --> 00:03:05,280 have been talking to themselves and 55 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:08,080 living in an ivory tower for a very long 56 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:10,799 time have got it spectacularly wrong 57 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:12,640 again and again and again and I think 58 00:03:10,799 --> 00:03:15,040 what there has been and what you can see 59 00:03:12,640 --> 00:03:17,560 in the United States and in Britain and 60 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:20,400 in parts of Europe is essentially kind 61 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:23,000 of a Revolt of the Rust Belt if you like 62 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:26,239 essentially you know 30 40 Years of 63 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:28,959 neoliberal Economics have brought about 64 00:03:26,239 --> 00:03:30,319 the most grotesque amount of uh poverty 65 00:03:28,959 --> 00:03:31,599 and Division 66 00:03:30,319 --> 00:03:33,360 and 67 00:03:31,599 --> 00:03:36,040 de-industrialization and people have had 68 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:37,200 enough and uh in America people say oh 69 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,760 well what are you talking about Donald 70 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:42,239 Trump's president well in America I saw 71 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:44,959 and I've shared a platform with him a 72 00:03:42,239 --> 00:03:47,000 few times in the past Bernie Sanders uh 73 00:03:44,959 --> 00:03:49,319 from the left of politics in America 74 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:51,239 doing spectacularly well only being 75 00:03:49,319 --> 00:03:54,120 frustrated at the last minute by the 76 00:03:51,239 --> 00:03:56,040 Machinery of the democratic party uh who 77 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:58,840 had possibly the best chance of beating 78 00:03:56,040 --> 00:04:00,439 Trump and Trump taking some of the 79 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,400 choice bits of that 80 00:04:00,439 --> 00:04:05,000 policy agenda from Bernie Sanders and 81 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:07,360 appealing to bluecar America and here in 82 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,760 Britain um the most astonishing thing 83 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,239 with all the commentary at saying the 84 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:13,840 labor party's finished Jeremy Corbin has 85 00:04:11,239 --> 00:04:16,680 no appeal and what have you what did we 86 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:19,199 see uh again you know the British labor 87 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:21,440 party now becomes the biggest left party 88 00:04:19,199 --> 00:04:23,560 in Europe in the world if not the world 89 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:26,360 the world extraordinary thing certainly 90 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:28,479 uh in the in the Western World Without 91 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:31,960 uh without a shadow of a doubt Corbin 92 00:04:28,479 --> 00:04:35,520 got a bigger increase in the labor votee 93 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:39,919 than any leader since Clement Atley in 94 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:42,639 1945 uh he got nearly 13 million votes 95 00:04:39,919 --> 00:04:45,160 and by any measure stands on the 96 00:04:42,639 --> 00:04:47,080 threshold of Downing Street especially 97 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:50,120 considering the chaos I tried to 98 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:53,320 describe uh of the British government uh 99 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,639 today Trea May cannot be much longer for 100 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:57,160 number 10 101 00:04:54,639 --> 00:04:59,000 surely well I mean I think anybody who 102 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,680 makes predictions is going to be uh 103 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:03,199 laughed out of the out of the room in a 104 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:05,039 way but um I mean there's one thing that 105 00:05:03,199 --> 00:05:07,440 people do tend to forget when they when 106 00:05:05,039 --> 00:05:09,120 they look at this sort of this Coalition 107 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,759 that has been assembled this Coalition 108 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:14,479 of the Willing that we have been here 109 00:05:11,759 --> 00:05:16,639 before uh with the major government and 110 00:05:14,479 --> 00:05:19,440 their deals with the oler unionists and 111 00:05:16,639 --> 00:05:21,520 th those deals persisted for a long time 112 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:24,039 with the dup the Democratic unionist 113 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:27,600 party even hard you know George even a 114 00:05:24,039 --> 00:05:30,560 harder tougher Bunch uh of ster men and 115 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:32,280 women uh who are exacting a great deal 116 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,840 from this Magic Money Tree that the 117 00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:36,919 Prime Minister said did not exist I'm 118 00:05:34,840 --> 00:05:39,039 sure they will prop this government up 119 00:05:36,919 --> 00:05:40,600 for as long as it takes and of course 120 00:05:39,039 --> 00:05:42,919 when you look at the conservative party 121 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:45,160 now it's very difficult to see who they 122 00:05:42,919 --> 00:05:47,880 can agree to take it forward and so they 123 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:49,960 have a prime minister um both wings of 124 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:52,560 the Tory party will want to manipulate 125 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:55,039 over brexit I'm I mean possibly she she 126 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:57,240 does cont continue for for for longer 127 00:05:55,039 --> 00:05:59,000 than some of the commentators think she 128 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:01,479 might well that's an interesting uh 129 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:03,520 perspective uh I myself think she'll be 130 00:06:01,479 --> 00:06:05,720 gone by the time of the conference 131 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:08,280 there's all kinds of strange things 132 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:11,720 happening there's a carnival of 133 00:06:08,280 --> 00:06:15,000 publicity uh around uh Jacob Reese MOG a 134 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:17,800 former guest on this program sat exactly 135 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:20,880 where you were to me he's like sir Alec 136 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:23,919 Douglas Hume on on laughing gas uh but 137 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:27,120 he's being punted as a serious leader 138 00:06:23,919 --> 00:06:29,599 for the conservative party yes really uh 139 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:31,520 the spreadsheet fill the desicated 140 00:06:29,599 --> 00:06:33,880 calculating machine Philip Hammond 141 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:36,319 Chancellor of the exer David Davis the 142 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:39,120 only man who can strangle someone with 143 00:06:36,319 --> 00:06:41,639 piano wire which a skill he learned 144 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:43,120 legitimately yes with the SS I actually 145 00:06:41,639 --> 00:06:45,120 think of all of them that you just 146 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:47,880 mentioned and others that I've seen 147 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:50,560 talked about David Davis would be 148 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:53,160 possibly the uh pose the bigger threat 149 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:56,520 to the labor party I I think that he has 150 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:58,520 a an appeal um there's something um 151 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:00,879 quite natural about him and he has a 152 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:03,280 backstory that's interesting and real to 153 00:07:00,879 --> 00:07:05,560 people so you know he's not a creation 154 00:07:03,280 --> 00:07:09,080 of the we've had 30 years of 155 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:11,199 technocratic politicians andman and pmen 156 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,560 and David Davis is a serious politician 157 00:07:11,199 --> 00:07:16,599 he is the brexit secretary the brexit is 158 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:19,319 the number one uh item on the British 159 00:07:16,599 --> 00:07:24,039 political uh agenda he genuinely 160 00:07:19,319 --> 00:07:26,960 believes in it uh as I do myself uh and 161 00:07:24,039 --> 00:07:29,680 so I'm hoping he is the prime minister 162 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:31,520 because at least he'll be able to to 163 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:35,160 deliver what the British people voted 164 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:39,240 for and he too said here and he also is 165 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:42,120 a a former uh guest of ours but the the 166 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:44,800 Rust Belt point that you made uh I'm 167 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:48,360 particularly keen on because that's what 168 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:51,879 Trump that's what won it for Trump the 169 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:54,520 the the perception that their own party 170 00:07:51,879 --> 00:07:57,840 the Democratic party long regarded as 171 00:07:54,520 --> 00:08:01,479 the party for working people uh although 172 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:04,520 that began to change under Reagan uh but 173 00:08:01,479 --> 00:08:06,960 long regarded as at least a party more 174 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:09,720 sympathetic to workers than the 175 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:13,639 Republicans uh they went the workers 176 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:15,919 there in Michigan in Pennsylvania and uh 177 00:08:13,639 --> 00:08:18,400 and other such States Wisconson and 178 00:08:15,919 --> 00:08:21,280 others they went for Trump because the 179 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:23,879 Democratic party seemed no longer to 180 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:28,120 represent them in any way and the same 181 00:08:23,879 --> 00:08:31,319 was true of Labor under under the Blair 182 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:33,760 era wasn't it yes it was I I remember um 183 00:08:31,319 --> 00:08:36,320 the first talk of triangulation the new 184 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:38,240 Democrats under Bill Clinton Tony Blair 185 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,440 coming back and writing a piece for the 186 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,240 evening standard he was taken by all of 187 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:45,120 this and T also Gordon Brown I mean he 188 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:47,279 went and uh came back with all this 189 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:49,240 stuff about endogenous growth Theory and 190 00:08:47,279 --> 00:08:51,640 all this having sat there and listening 191 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:54,320 to listened to um the chairman of the 192 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:56,000 the Federal Reserve we we've had we've 193 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:58,160 had of all of this and there is a there 194 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:00,040 is a revolt and it's it's fascinating 195 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:02,880 when you think of um 196 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:05,600 when you think of that Trump appeal it 197 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:08,000 did cut right through and it cut Beyond 198 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:10,959 I remember stand this is last September 199 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:14,200 in New York watching the television and 200 00:09:10,959 --> 00:09:16,279 hearing the CEO of Ford saying in four 201 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:19,040 years time we're going to move all small 202 00:09:16,279 --> 00:09:21,360 car auto production to Mexico and I said 203 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:23,880 to the person I was with I bet Hillary 204 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:25,120 Clinton has nothing to say about that 205 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,640 and of course she had nothing to say 206 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:30,440 about it the following day Donald Trump 207 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:33,079 at the New York chamber of Commerce says 208 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:35,519 to the CEO Ford you don't do this I will 209 00:09:33,079 --> 00:09:38,440 stop you and that is when it kind of 210 00:09:35,519 --> 00:09:40,160 dawned on me that you could see why this 211 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,880 was this great appeal to the American 212 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:45,440 Blue who have just seen whole sways of 213 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:48,880 their industry wiped out by NAFTA and 214 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:51,040 free trade agreements uh and Trump's 215 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:53,360 people stole a lot of Bernie Sanders's 216 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:55,279 policies and the rest as we say because 217 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,839 the latest RS actually show that Bernie 218 00:09:55,279 --> 00:09:58,839 Sanders is now the most popular 219 00:09:56,839 --> 00:10:01,959 politician in the US so he's not 220 00:09:58,839 --> 00:10:04,600 competing on the left right side he's 221 00:10:01,959 --> 00:10:07,560 you know it's it's a terrible uh 222 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:10,839 indictment on the uh Democratic party 223 00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:13,640 that they blew a billion dollars on the 224 00:10:10,839 --> 00:10:17,480 Hillary Clinton presidential campaign 225 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:18,959 and they lost uh in those very areas 226 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:21,240 that they ought to have been able to put 227 00:10:18,959 --> 00:10:25,880 in the bank before they even started 228 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:28,880 working class industrial America uh and 229 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:31,959 yet all they seem to be able to do is 230 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:35,040 try to blame Julian Assange Wikileaks 231 00:10:31,959 --> 00:10:36,839 Russia anyone but themselves is that 232 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:39,600 from your us 233 00:10:36,839 --> 00:10:42,120 experience uh true throughout the 234 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:45,560 Democratic party is there a layer in the 235 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:48,360 Democratic party that can see the the 236 00:10:45,560 --> 00:10:50,440 the truth in this whole picture or not 237 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,200 yes I think that the Democratic party 238 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,920 has become populated by a lot of 239 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:57,200 youngsters as is the case here with the 240 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:59,839 British labor party um you and they know 241 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:01,920 that that the whole Clinton Third Way 242 00:10:59,839 --> 00:11:04,519 it's all that's P it's like new labor 243 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:07,079 it's past history this goes it's out of 244 00:11:04,519 --> 00:11:09,040 it's out of the door now uh the point 245 00:11:07,079 --> 00:11:10,160 about Hillary Clinton and the Democratic 246 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:13,639 Party 247 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:16,040 Machine talking incessantly about uh uh 248 00:11:13,639 --> 00:11:17,680 Russia is that that doesn't really cut 249 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,160 it with the people they've got to win 250 00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:21,160 back that's not to say that it's not 251 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:23,200 important if it is the case that Russia 252 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,839 was interfering with American elections 253 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,320 but mind you America has interfered with 254 00:11:24,839 --> 00:11:28,959 lots of Elections elsewhere so it all 255 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:31,040 goes on but this is not an issue that 256 00:11:28,959 --> 00:11:32,680 matters is hugely with most ordinary 257 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:36,160 Americans and of course with a lot of 258 00:11:32,680 --> 00:11:40,600 Donald Trump's this is the danger I mean 259 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:42,920 I'm of the left I I'm not American but I 260 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:45,320 would like I I don't like the Trump 261 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:48,079 presidency I would like to see a 262 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:50,839 populist Democratic Party come back to 263 00:11:48,079 --> 00:11:54,519 office to power it's not going to do it 264 00:11:50,839 --> 00:11:58,120 by talking about Russia all the time and 265 00:11:54,519 --> 00:12:00,240 it's not going to do it um by uh by 266 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:02,160 patronizing a lot of the people who 267 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,079 voted for Donald Trump it has to win 268 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,760 them back and I don't think it's there 269 00:12:04,079 --> 00:12:07,880 yet I think the Machinery of the 270 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:10,680 democratic party is resistant and it's 271 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:13,600 fighting back there's a similarity here 272 00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:15,920 within the British labor party um just 273 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:18,199 off of a slight tangent I mean the the 274 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:20,720 for the past two years after Jeremy 275 00:12:18,199 --> 00:12:23,320 Corbin was elected leader on two 276 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:25,639 occasions there was a cacophony from 277 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,360 about 40 yard labor MPS which went far 278 00:12:25,639 --> 00:12:29,199 beyond anything that the old Tribune 279 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,480 group or the left groups in the old 280 00:12:29,199 --> 00:12:34,560 parliamentary party used to do this was 281 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:36,920 deeply vitriolic and damaging and and 282 00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:39,920 possibly cost labor the general election 283 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:42,760 Victory our friend uh Corbin might have 284 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:46,519 been in Downing Street but for the stab 285 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:49,320 in the back over 20 months nearly by uh 286 00:12:46,519 --> 00:12:50,839 by the rebel MPS but he might get there 287 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:53,959 yet and I hope you're there with him 288 00:12:50,839 --> 00:12:56,760 Mark said thanks for joining us on the 289 00:12:53,959 --> 00:12:59,639 Sputnik coming up next mosul is 290 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:01,959 liberated say hallelujah it's a pile of 291 00:12:59,639 --> 00:13:05,680 Ash and Rubble though so what happens 292 00:13:01,959 --> 00:13:05,680 next find out after the 293 00:13:14,650 --> 00:13:20,120 [Music] 294 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:23,800 break welcome back to Sputnik mosul is 295 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:26,839 liberated from a k Rouge style of hell 296 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:30,000 it has been at the year zero or less 297 00:13:26,839 --> 00:13:32,440 under Isis but what happens next next 298 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:35,399 and in raqa the Syrian capital of the 299 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:38,079 evil empire the US forces are reportedly 300 00:13:35,399 --> 00:13:41,000 in the streets the problem is neither 301 00:13:38,079 --> 00:13:43,880 liberating Army is entirely welcome for 302 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:47,440 the people of moso or raqqa which is why 303 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:49,800 attention turns now to life after Isis 304 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:53,440 joining us to explore this terrain is 305 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:57,680 writer and commentator Dr Marcus Papados 306 00:13:53,440 --> 00:14:00,040 very good to see you back Dr Marcus uh 307 00:13:57,680 --> 00:14:03,720 if the US are in 308 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:07,240 raqa uh this means that there's a US 309 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:10,600 occupied City in the Syrian Arab 310 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:13,079 Republic and the Syrian government and 311 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:16,440 its allies don't want it there what's 312 00:14:13,079 --> 00:14:19,399 going to happen there and equally in 313 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:23,360 Mosel uh the city has been liberated no 314 00:14:19,399 --> 00:14:27,040 doubt from the hordes of of barbarism 315 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:29,399 the black hundreds of Isis but the 316 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:32,199 government in Baghdad 317 00:14:29,399 --> 00:14:34,440 is not popular amongst the people in 318 00:14:32,199 --> 00:14:36,920 Mosel so what's going to happen there 319 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:39,120 you're the expert tell us well naturally 320 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:41,959 I was uh delighted when the news broke 321 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:44,839 that mosul had been liberated and it 322 00:14:41,959 --> 00:14:47,600 really does mean that uh Iraq is close 323 00:14:44,839 --> 00:14:50,440 to being free of this terrible terrible 324 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:53,240 cancer uh that is Isis but then that 325 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:57,279 happiness was tinged with some sadness 326 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:59,720 because I know that Syria still has Isis 327 00:14:57,279 --> 00:15:01,839 there and it still has other wahhabist 328 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:05,279 terrorist groups occupying Syrian 329 00:15:01,839 --> 00:15:08,720 territory and it is such a shame that 330 00:15:05,279 --> 00:15:10,560 while mosul um its Liberation was 331 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:13,320 projected by the British media in a very 332 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:16,279 very positive light when Easter Leo was 333 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:18,040 liberated from those uh barbarians the 334 00:15:16,279 --> 00:15:20,720 very same people the very very same 335 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:23,240 people um it was a completely different 336 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:25,199 response uh from the British media now 337 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:28,120 if we're talking about uh the American 338 00:15:25,199 --> 00:15:30,360 presence in Raa I suspect the Americans 339 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:32,759 have seen the writing on the wall I 340 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,720 believe that Donald Trump and his 341 00:15:32,759 --> 00:15:37,959 administration understand all too 342 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:41,279 clearly that the Syrian Army is going to 343 00:15:37,959 --> 00:15:43,000 win eventually in this conflict so uh 344 00:15:41,279 --> 00:15:44,680 gon of the days of them trying to 345 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,839 overthrow the Syrian government it's not 346 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,680 going to work it's not going to work 347 00:15:45,839 --> 00:15:50,000 with the Russians there in particular 348 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:52,399 but also with the Iranians and also uh 349 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:55,720 Hezbollah so I suspect the Americans are 350 00:15:52,399 --> 00:15:58,360 falling back onto let's call it Plan B 351 00:15:55,720 --> 00:16:01,360 whereby they try and keep some sort of 352 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:03,360 influence in the country by having uh 353 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:06,000 their soldiers there alongside the 354 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:08,519 various proxies who they're supporting 355 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:11,319 and I wouldn't just uh site raaka I 356 00:16:08,519 --> 00:16:13,920 would also s site along the Turkish 357 00:16:11,319 --> 00:16:16,240 border uh which of course is occupied by 358 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,959 the other wahhabist terrorist group the 359 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:22,920 so-called free Syrian 360 00:16:17,959 --> 00:16:26,680 Army and to add to the mix you now have 361 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:30,399 uh Kurdish fighters in control of some 362 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:32,880 parts of the territory not not likely to 363 00:16:30,399 --> 00:16:36,079 willingly hand it back to the Syrian 364 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:39,759 Arab Republic if the Americans have 365 00:16:36,079 --> 00:16:43,600 effectively kind of East West Berlin 366 00:16:39,759 --> 00:16:45,959 situation in raqa that's a recipe for 367 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:49,160 Endless trouble in the in the future 368 00:16:45,959 --> 00:16:52,440 they're going to say to the president of 369 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:54,399 Syria well your R might well run in all 370 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,560 these other parts of the country but 371 00:16:54,399 --> 00:16:59,199 they don't run here and they don't run 372 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:01,959 in the parts that are controlled by our 373 00:16:59,199 --> 00:17:04,000 Kurdish uh allies of course the point 374 00:17:01,959 --> 00:17:07,039 you make about mosul is correct now 375 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:10,120 mosul has been mercilessly bombed by the 376 00:17:07,039 --> 00:17:13,439 United States it is as gatri said a pile 377 00:17:10,120 --> 00:17:16,520 of rubble and Ash but if they continue 378 00:17:13,439 --> 00:17:19,039 to govern mosul as they did before Isis 379 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:21,720 arrived it won't be long before a new 380 00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:24,439 kind of Isis emerges there isn't it well 381 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:27,400 I think that's the problem while we uh 382 00:17:24,439 --> 00:17:30,280 rejoice in the liberation of mosul the 383 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:33,400 Iraqi government uh ultimately is 384 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:35,799 compliant to the west and the way it has 385 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:38,200 treated its own civilians in mosul has 386 00:17:35,799 --> 00:17:40,840 been abysmal and I would say what is 387 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:43,880 even more abysmal is how the Iraqi 388 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:45,760 government turned the Blind Eye to the 389 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,679 hundreds upon hundreds of Iraqi 390 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:51,039 civilians who were murdered by the 391 00:17:47,679 --> 00:17:52,799 American Air Force in mosul now to me 392 00:17:51,039 --> 00:17:55,159 that's a recipe for disaster for the 393 00:17:52,799 --> 00:17:56,679 Iraqi government in the future not now 394 00:17:55,159 --> 00:17:58,159 but in the future because people are not 395 00:17:56,679 --> 00:18:00,559 going to forget their loved ones who 396 00:17:58,159 --> 00:18:02,159 have been murdered by the Americans and 397 00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:05,520 knowing that their own government has 398 00:18:02,159 --> 00:18:08,200 turned a blind eye to that Isis as a 399 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:12,200 group uh they have been defeated in 400 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:15,679 mosul but as a concept it probably will 401 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:18,880 continue I just wanted to raise the the 402 00:18:15,679 --> 00:18:20,480 figure behind Isis Al bagdadi is he of 403 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:23,120 importance because we have long not 404 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,960 heard of him and it seems that Isis just 405 00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:27,080 continues as a group on its own without 406 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:30,360 a leader do you know what I think about 407 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:33,640 people like baghdaddy and and Bin Laden 408 00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:36,640 they are replaceable yes they might be 409 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:39,640 charismatic to their own depraved 410 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:41,960 followers um yes they might have some 411 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:44,400 sort of strong leadership skills but 412 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:46,200 ultimately they can be replaced but what 413 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,720 I thought was interesting uh we're 414 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,080 hearing reports at the moment that 415 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:52,120 baghdaddy was killed in a Russian air 416 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:54,880 strike and if that's true we should be 417 00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:57,840 rejoicing in that news but it's been 418 00:18:54,880 --> 00:19:02,000 barely reported by British mainstream 419 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:06,280 media what our good friends Saudi Arabia 420 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:09,320 uh they are uh strengthened by the Court 421 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:12,240 decision in in Britain this week that 422 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:15,360 selling them weapons is perfectly lawful 423 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:17,960 even though they are using those weapons 424 00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:20,440 against civilians in the Yemen and 425 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:22,799 British law says that we must not sell 426 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:25,320 weapons uh that are used for external 427 00:19:22,799 --> 00:19:28,480 aggression or internal repression how 428 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:31,840 The Honorable judges squared that I I I 429 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:35,919 really don't know uh Saudi Arabia has a 430 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:40,440 new 30-year-old ruler effective ruler 431 00:19:35,919 --> 00:19:43,000 Crown Prince uh are they going to go 432 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:47,400 back into their box or are they 433 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:51,200 emboldened by Trump and his support for 434 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:53,720 them in the confrontation with Qatar and 435 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:55,280 strengthened by the court victory of the 436 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:58,159 British government this week well you 437 00:19:55,280 --> 00:20:01,840 know um Saudi Arabia is emboldened it's 438 00:19:58,159 --> 00:20:03,240 embolden especially because its man is 439 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,799 now in the White House and that's Donald 440 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:08,960 Trump you know for decades he has had 441 00:20:05,799 --> 00:20:11,320 very very uh extensive business ties 442 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:13,400 with the Saudi raw family and it's no 443 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:15,600 coincidence that about a week or 10 days 444 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:18,320 before Trump bombed uh that Syrian 445 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:20,039 Airbase in April uh the American 446 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:23,520 government the Saudi government signed a 447 00:20:20,039 --> 00:20:26,880 $200 billion contract whereby the Saudis 448 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:30,159 would invest $200 billion in American uh 449 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:32,440 Saudi Enterprises now it's my own 450 00:20:30,159 --> 00:20:34,280 guessing that uh in return for the 451 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:36,880 Saudis pumping that money into these 452 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:39,360 businesses Trump would have to attack 453 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,960 the Syrian military he did that and then 454 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:43,039 it's only a few weeks ago he attacked 455 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,000 the Syrian military again and on both 456 00:20:43,039 --> 00:20:47,480 occasions who benefited from those 457 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,760 attacks it was Isis because Isis started 458 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,280 attacking that Syrian military 459 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,720 installation when it was bombed and it 460 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,760 attacked those Syrian military forces 461 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,080 when they were bombed a few weeks ago 462 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,799 but you know let's be clear about it 463 00:20:55,080 --> 00:21:00,280 Saudi Arabia is the leading export of 464 00:20:57,799 --> 00:21:02,720 religious extreme ex ISM and terrorism 465 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:05,640 in the world at the scene of every 466 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:08,320 wahhabist terrorist act in the world be 467 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:10,799 it uh be it's London Bridge be it 468 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:13,720 Manchester be it B market there is a 469 00:21:10,799 --> 00:21:15,799 sign pointing back to Saudi Arabia of 470 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:18,720 course Saudi Arabia was in a no lose 471 00:21:15,799 --> 00:21:21,080 situation because uh they had a they had 472 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:23,640 a long relationship with Donald Trump 473 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:25,559 but they had an even more profitable one 474 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,799 with Hillary Clinton they were 475 00:21:25,559 --> 00:21:31,559 significant donors to the Clinton 476 00:21:27,799 --> 00:21:34,480 Foundation and their people were in full 477 00:21:31,559 --> 00:21:37,440 support of Hillary so it was uh heads 478 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:42,200 you win Tails You Win so far as they 479 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:45,320 were win concerned yeah now the war is 480 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:49,039 coming to an end in Iraq it's not quite 481 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:52,919 that uh advanced in Syria but the end 482 00:21:49,039 --> 00:21:55,840 result is clear as we uh both know uh 483 00:21:52,919 --> 00:21:59,559 the president of Syria is staying the 484 00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:02,679 Syrian Arab Army and its allies have won 485 00:21:59,559 --> 00:22:06,880 a truly historic uh Victory I mean this 486 00:22:02,679 --> 00:22:09,520 is Stalingrad levels of uh of military 487 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:11,799 achievement they were fighting an an 488 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:14,640 armed invasion of their country by 489 00:22:11,799 --> 00:22:17,880 dozens of countries if not 300 and on 490 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:19,679 300 fronts at one point yes uh it is 491 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:23,600 something that will be studied and 492 00:22:19,679 --> 00:22:24,919 written about in the future but as gatri 493 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:29,200 was I think 494 00:22:24,919 --> 00:22:31,799 implying the idea of Isis the idea of of 495 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:34,240 al-Qaeda emerged in the first place 496 00:22:31,799 --> 00:22:37,440 because of the rottenness of the 497 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:40,640 leadership in the Muslim world and that 498 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:43,480 hasn't gone away and uh and therefore 499 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:47,720 this uh phenomenon will will morph 500 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:51,840 somehow somewhere sometime into uh 501 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:54,679 something else the problem of 502 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:57,080 dictatorship in the Arab world is 503 00:22:54,679 --> 00:22:59,799 something that has to be tackled doesn't 504 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:04,000 it because this is the swamp in which 505 00:22:59,799 --> 00:23:06,919 these these people swim mhm well I think 506 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:09,880 um like with many vile ideologies like 507 00:23:06,919 --> 00:23:13,039 Nazism that was defeated 70 years ago 508 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:15,480 but 70 years on you still have a 509 00:23:13,039 --> 00:23:17,200 significant number of people um who are 510 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:20,320 following it and of course we've seen a 511 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:21,799 reemergence of Nazism uh in Germany but 512 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,799 also we're seeing it in the Baltic 513 00:23:21,799 --> 00:23:27,600 states as well soia in Ukraine 514 00:23:24,799 --> 00:23:29,919 absolutely well every year um in Talon 515 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:32,679 the capital of Estonia every year in Ria 516 00:23:29,919 --> 00:23:36,760 the capital of lvia there is a uh a 517 00:23:32,679 --> 00:23:38,320 parade by Veterans of the ven SS which 518 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,440 is NE which has never been condemned by 519 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:43,480 the European Union or America which says 520 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:47,360 something um there but I think that the 521 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:49,440 ideology of Isis Al-Qaeda um is going to 522 00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:52,080 be kept alive because as I said these 523 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,720 ideologies will always have followers 524 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,480 But ultimately as well as you said 525 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:58,880 George uh the governments in these 526 00:23:55,480 --> 00:24:01,120 countries they're responsible but look 527 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:03,640 uh you know this wahhabist terrorist 528 00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:06,919 threat uh posed To The World Is Only the 529 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:08,960 force it is because of the West if the 530 00:24:06,919 --> 00:24:10,880 Americans and the British stopped 531 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:13,440 supporting Saudi Arabia and really 532 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,679 confronted them in a Hardline way uh 533 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:18,440 wahhabism is not going to disappear but 534 00:24:15,679 --> 00:24:20,480 it will be a weakened force and I think 535 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,799 it is absolutely objectionable how there 536 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,520 are Saudi mosques in this country and 537 00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:26,279 religious schools in this country which 538 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:29,360 are promoting wahhabism which are 539 00:24:26,279 --> 00:24:32,399 promoting uh hatred for any one who does 540 00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:36,279 not follow Islam 541 00:24:32,399 --> 00:24:37,840 those follow their their interpretation 542 00:24:36,279 --> 00:24:39,039 Islam and they should be closed down 543 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,760 they should not be allowed in this 544 00:24:39,039 --> 00:24:43,850 country Dr Marcus thanks for joining us 545 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:46,120 on the 546 00:24:43,850 --> 00:24:48,200 [Music] 547 00:24:46,120 --> 00:24:50,279 Sputnik and now it's your turn to tell 548 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:53,159 us what you think through the portals of 549 00:24:50,279 --> 00:24:56,679 social media what's rattling guy so most 550 00:24:53,159 --> 00:24:58,640 liberated what next Daniel J King says I 551 00:24:56,679 --> 00:25:00,799 guess we lose all interest and ignore 552 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,840 the interes struggling between armed 553 00:25:00,799 --> 00:25:05,960 groups in the rubble as traumatized 554 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:08,559 civilians struggle on I must say the 555 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:12,760 footage of the people emerging from the 556 00:25:08,559 --> 00:25:16,399 rubble it was for me rolent of The 557 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:21,080 Liberation by the by the Red Army of the 558 00:25:16,399 --> 00:25:24,360 Nazi death camps the emaciated shocked 559 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:28,679 utterly bewildered uh people uh one can 560 00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:30,799 only imagine the kind of Hell on Earth 561 00:25:28,679 --> 00:25:32,480 that they've been living through and 562 00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:34,919 that's all the te we've got time for 563 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,679 today which alas means that's the end of 564 00:25:34,919 --> 00:25:39,159 the show but you can stay in touch with 565 00:25:36,679 --> 00:25:43,360 us on Facebook Sputnik on Russia today 566 00:25:39,159 --> 00:25:45,720 or Twitter and Instagram rtor Sputnik 567 00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:49,840 goodbye from meay and from me George 568 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,840 Galler it's been marvelous 569 00:25:50,750 --> 00:25:56,869 [Music] 570 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,440 oh